jay nixon has ordered the national guard to begin withdrawing. attorney general eric holder reconfirmed his commitment to justice in ferguson. after a night of mostly peaceful protests, new questions about how long the calm will last. outside the clayton county courthouse, the grand jury will decide the fate of officer darren wilson. protests rallied and scuffled with authorities while trying to deliver a petition, calling for st. louis county prosecutor bob mcculloch to step down from the case. >> it's our first amendment right. i'm an elected official. i'm a senator for the state of missouri. how dare you tell me i can't -- >> ma'am, ma'am -- >> it's a pub electric building. it's a public building! >> meanwhile, back in washington today, attorney holder spoke

about justice. >> with this tragedy comes a great opportunity for reforming that community. but i think that's something that we can do nationwide. this has ingendered a conversation. it's time to take concrete steps. >> the streets in ferguson were calm last night with only a hand iff ful of arrests. >> the crowd was smaller tonight. we had to respond to small incidents tonight. no molotov cocktails or shootings. >> the police department has been hit with two more wrongful death lawsuits over moore who was tasered by police in 2011. a police officer from nearby st. ann was suspended indefinitely after pointing an assault rifle

in a protester's face and shouting threats tuesday night. another officer stepped in to walk the officer away from the crowd. msnbc.com zach roth is live in ferguson and joins me by phone. zach, let's go back to what happened with that state senator who was attempting to deliver a petition while trying to get bob mcculloch and a group of black leaders had a petition that 70,000 signatures calling on mcculloch to step aside. they really want the federal government to take over. that's who they place their trust if. the senator walked over to a police tape that has been set up and a line of police and tried

to go under the tape to get access to deliver the buildings and she would stop there by police. the prosecutor, a spokesman was there, too. they were all kind of blocking their way. get your hands off me at one point. somebody toucheder h her, i gue. they insisted she cannot come in the building. she and other protesters eventually she kind of turned around and was walking off and still very angry. other protesters remained and talked to the police calmly and eventually got a response. they yelled at her to turn around and came back and at this time they let one other person who was with her and they took those petitions in and delivered them inside the building. i don't know if they made it up to the prosecutor's office or not. she then came back down and continued to call for mcculloch to step aside. >> zach, do you happen to know

how long they have had that building? it's opened to the public. how long has that building been cordoned off? why is access restricted to that building? >> i was there yesterday, too, and they did not have tape out at the time i was there. and it was quite friendly and today it was different and the building was closed. that's the reason why they were not letting her and her supporters in there and that's the response, this is a public building, why can't we get in? they were able to let her in because they relented. it's kind of conflicting information. >> let's, lastly, talk about the withdraw of the national guard. what was the reason given for the national guard being pulled back, that you know of?

>> you know, the situation has been calmer on the ground at night. thanks in part to ron johnson's effort and i think just kind of a gradual waning of attorney general eric holder helped with that, too. last night there were very few arrests. it really feels like the story and focus is shifting to the political and legal developments and that's a good thing for everyone. >> thanks very much, zach roth. appreciate it. >> thank you. >> on the heels of attorney general holder's visit to ferguson, the civil rights division has seen a rise in these kinds of cases. they have opened 20 civil rights cases in the past five years. that's more than twice as many as the previous five. yesterday, a.g. holder met with

community and state leaders, including emanuel cleaver. he joins me live from washington. congressman, first of all, thanks for being here. >> thank you. >> i want to get a read out from you on what the attorney general had to say to elected officials, including yourself. >> well, he reassured us, although we didn't need it, that the department of justice and the fbi would use all of its resources, all of its powers to get the facts of the case in terms of the civil rights violations. and he told us about some of the reactions he had received from people with whom he had discussed the situation in ferguson. i think, to be clear, that a part of the reason we're seeing a calming of that city streets is due, in no small part, to

a.g. holder and captain ron johnson and the fact that there have been failing of clergy members going into that community talking to people and keeping a watchful eye over things and i think -- i don't think right now there is a concern that we're going to go and have another explosion unless something crazy takes place unless we can't predict. >> congressman, one of the reasons that you did see so much tension was this highly militarized response that you saw from ferguson police. we know that the federal government has been involved in making grants to cities like ferguson and you've seen this 1033 program out of the pentagon, something like $4.3 billion to cities since the early '90s and specifically in st. louis county they have given them two helicopters, night vision equipment. it's a time for congress to revisit how much they are giving

to these cities. armored vehicles, et cetera. do cities need that kind of equipment and should congress revisit it? >> no, communities don't need that kind of equipment. at least some communities don't. as mayor of kansas city, i can tell you that all of our officers who use the equipment were trained to use it. the problem that many of us have in congress -- and we're going to share this with secretary chuck hagel later on today, there are small communities who are receiving equipment and they can't afford to do the training. and so that, i think, is dangerous. one of the things that i think we all need to be aware of, there are 8,000 agencies in this country who receive what is considered to be excess military equipment. and if you have a toy, you want to take it out of the box and

play with it. cities that would be targets for terrorists should have all of the equipment that they can get and use to protect the people. but we're not likely to see an attack in ferguson and other small communities. so i think we've got to revisit the program. i think the department of defense can probably make some adjust notice with our congress to make sure some communities just don't get that equipment because they are too small to use it. >> indeed. thank you very much. we'll definitely be following this with you, congressman cleaver. appreciate it. joining me now is lisa bloom, with avo.com. a state senator not being able to get into a public building, is there a precedent for covering a pub electrlic buildi

because protests are happening? and is that odd? >> it is extremely odd. it seems that everybody in ferguson needs some information about peaceful protests being good things, part of the american fabric and something that we're all supposed to support, not block. >> and the other thing that we see here, lisa, is this tug-of-war between the prosecutor, bob mcculloch, saying he's not going anywhere and it's the governor's responsibility if he wants to get rid of him and the governor issuing a statement saying it's not his responsibility to remove bob mcculloch. what do you make of that and is there a precedent for a governor in the midst of the grand jury to pull the prosecutor off of a case? >> you know, listen, this has to be resolved. this is a distraction at this point. and with all due respect to attorney general eric holder, coming in and shaking hands and being a figure head, we need action here. we need a prosecutor who has the

course of the community's perception of what is going on. i think the community has good grounds to ask for someone else, someone who doesn't have such close ties to the police. somebody who hasn't made pub electrpublic statements supportive of the local police. if it hasn't happened, it needs to happen right away. >> that's what is so odd about the case. you have somebody very close to the police and he himself made statements critical of the idea of pulling the local police off of security in ferguson but he's digging in and hanging on so tightly to the case. what do you make of bob mcculloch's real insistence when he's not leaving the case? >> well, i am concerned. i think he could have recused himself. he chose not to. we care about the security. maybe he hasn't done anything wrong but the right thing to do would be to step back. instead of a preliminary hearing

and he's chosen the grand jury, which is going to go on until at least october. >> one other case i'm going to turn to, lisa, you now have more litigation. you have two lawsuits being filed against the city of ferguson for wrongful death. the city is not commenting on it right now. this is a case of a tasing that took place, another case of a police-involved death. the city right now is facing so much scrutiny in terms of its police force. the federal government has intervened and take over. >> the federal government should take over and really take action. i applaud these private lawsuits. look, this is what i do for a living. some people say, you're just after money but they can get discovery and a lot of information directly on behalf of the families. >> indeed. lisa bloom, thank you. definitely we're looking forward to have you here to help us make

sense of this as it goes forward. coming up, the shooting death of michael brown and how does this expose the fault lines in ferguson's political landscape? first, the ruthlessness of isis and the failed ability to rescue the american journalist james foley. there's a gap out there. that's keeping you from the healthcare you deserve. at humana, we believe the gap will close when healthcare gets simpler. when frustration and paperwork decrease. when grandparents get to live at home

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to giving local foster children one important thing: hope... hope... hope... not everyone can be a foster parent... but anyone can help a foster child. children: ♪ sleep train child: ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪ coming up, we'll continue our coverage in ferguson. we'll talk with trymaine lee who has been on the ground since the beginning. new details are emerging about the failed attempt by u.s. special forces to rescue american hostages being held by the terror group isis in syria. including journalist james foley, who was beheaded in a shocking video this week.

the pentagon says forces swarmed a compound and had a fierce gun battle with isis fighters. the american forces determined the hostages were not there and left. in the same gruesome video that showed foley's beheading, the group threatened to kill another journalist, steven sotloff, if president obama doesn't end the military operations in iraq. consider that highly unlikely since the state department has requested up to 300 additional troops to help secure u.s. facilities in baghdad. joining me now is bobby goesh. bobby, let's start with this attempt to make a lot of americans not even aware of the mass kidnapping of westerners. why is isis kidnapping westerners? what do you think is the goal? >> isis condemns anybody of value, not just westerners. they are actually holding nearly 80 journalists. the mass majority of them are local people.

this is one of their primary sources or it was, until recently, one of their primary sources of income. this is a group of thugs and execution and extortionists. there is a long history of western governments, not the united states, of many european governments paying quite handsome ransoms in order to get people back. everyone around the world knows this and it's been profitable for them in the past and they will continue to do this in the future. >> the governments are funding this organization that they want to destroy? >> it's a very hard choice for any elected leader to make. i mean, on the one hand, you want to get your citizen out of harm's way and if paying a little money from a government's point of view, paying that money will get them out of harm's way, that's something you want to achieve, especially if you're having to deal with a family and pressure groups.

on the other hand, the other part of that bargain is that, are you encouraging this sort of behavior in the future? >> right. >> i would not want to be in a position where i had to make that choice. >> and the u.s. does not pay ransom as a rule. that makes american hostages. the trouble is, with these terrorist groups, when kidnapping somebody, they are not making a distinction. they are seeing a foreigner and they will grab first and ask questions later. once they realize the person is american and if they have the sophistication to understand that there's no money coming, unfortunately, the conclusion is then maybe we use them for propaganda purposes. >> as we saw. the other issue that i think is striking to people is the involvement of this british sounding isis member, the person who kills mr. foley in the

video. under incredible pressure, british prime minister david cameron is not interested in getting involved but hundreds of britains are among the isis fighters. >> yes. up to 400 brits are in syria. we have to assume quite a lot of them are fighting with isis because it's the largest fighting group. so this had to have come as a great surprise, unpleasant as it might have been, it couldn't have been a surprise. they have the ability to narrow down, even from what little they are seeing on that video and might be able to narrow down who this person is. that would be a good start there's a larger problem, again, if you're james cameron, is that these are your citizens. they are going to be coming home and what kinds of poisons are they bringing with them, literally, as well as

metaphorically. >> let's take a listen to what this says. >> i haven't seen any voice or it's just a clue of citizenship but it's not in evidence. so i can't say about the citizenship. i just can't. >> he was held for ten months. seven of those months were spent with mr. foley. the fact is, he probably was freed because of a ransom. >> yes, that would have been the case. there have been many. european governments where the government directly. >> bobby, thanks.

we'll have you back to talk more about it. just ahead, some in the ferguson community have been inspired to political action. >> it's encouraging the participation. hey pal? you ready? can you pick me up at 6:30? ah... (boy) i'm here! i'm here! (cop) too late. i was gone for five minutes! ugh! move it. you're killing me. you know what, dad? i'm good. (dad) it may be quite a while before he's ready, but our subaru legacy will be waiting for him. (vo) the longest-lasting midsize sedan in its class. introducing the all-new subaru legacy. it's not just a sedan. it's a subaru.

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statement that while he is the attorney general, he's also a black man and uniquely qualified to understand distrust for the police. some of you blasted him for it but most of you now see holder as a great peacemaker, sending tweets like this one. i'm proud that eric holder is attorney general. he's a great man who is paving a strong legacy for our country. and you're praising his swagger. why do i love attorney general holder? he has a calm, cool swank to him. if holder sees himself in the black man impacted by this tragedy, this time.com video captures the views directly. take a look at ferguson through the eyes of these teens. >> why you got to shoot him in the head? he got no gun on him? that's crazy. >> i feel like they should keep protesting until it's over with. >> and if we don't get justice, then we'll be out here every day. >> meanwhile, ferguson's

educators are struggling to teach and feed their young students. schools have been closed due to protests and reporters are tweeting pictures of teachers gathered at the library saying that they are here to teach. shout out to teachers and librarians in ferguson working to keep kids safe and on track in school. a north carolina teacher is raising thousands of dollars to help feed minor who is get their meals at school. meet julianna with the authority to feed these young people. her campaign has raised nearly $145,000 and you can go to fundme.com if you want to help. you can join the conversation with fellow readers on instagram and facebook and msnbc.com. now this news. sea world is making news again as one of the biggest critics is buying stock in the company. unlimited cash back.

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even if you're healthy and active. phillips digestive health support is a duo-probiotic that helps supplement good bacteria found in two parts of your digestive tract. i'm doubly impressed! phillips' digestive health. a daily probiotic. back now with breaking news in ferguson where minutes ago governor jay nixon ordered the national guard to start pulling out. trymaine lee is joining me. can you see the de-escalation on the streets and what are the reactions that you're getting? >> reporter: that was part of the misconception in the beginning. people heard the national guard was going to be in town and assumed they would be lining the streets and patrolling. their primary duty was to blockade the command center where the county police and missouri state highway patrol have been gathering at their command center. you can't really see it on the

ground where the heart of the protests have been. you don't notice it until you get down near the command center and that's where they are pulling out now. >> are you getting a buzz from the people you're talking to about the seeming shift from the actual shooting itself and the focus on the police to the question of the prosecutor who really seems determined to stay on? >> well, certainly. you see all of the next steps coinciding together. we're shifting to the news of the prosecutor in the case and the step-by-step. people are welcoming it. people in the community have been tired of the violence and tear gas and all of that stuff and now people again are welcoming these next steps. but the prosecutor has seemed so far to be digging in his heels and beginning to bow as the pressure mounts on him. the question will be, will he stay or will he go? >> we did see in the trayvon

martin case an actual legal process again as people saw the legal system working the way they thought it should have all along. do you think that's making people feel better? >> reporter: it is, because you can actually gauge some progress. it's hard to gauge progress when we're focused on the streets because it's the situation that is so fragile. now we're actually starting to see the process slowly moving along with the grand jury convening. you can put your finger on, we're at point a and then we're at point b. people are welcoming the response to the killing to the actual process and mechanics of hearing out this case. >> thanks very much, trymaine lee, appreciate it. the shooting of michael brown has catapulted the city of ferguson into the national spotlight. take a look at what "the washington post" says about the city of ferguson. ferguson holds municipal

elections in april of odd number years. it's had a dramatic effect on turnouts. one that has been known about candidates and joining us is parts of perg son and goldie taylor, an msnbc contributor. i want to start with you because that is -- that does seem to be a part of the problem here. you have an unrepresentative and in part because of these weird off-year timed elections. is there any discussion within the state senate, within the legislature, to change that? >> absolutely. we've had those discussions for years now about actually getting enough votes through the senate and the house is very difficult to do that. but i have to tell you, at the ground level, there are many of my constituents who have not

been actively engaged in poll tibl particulars who are now encouraged to participate in the process. now there's a lot of interest where there wasn't. a lot of people were talking about voter registration right now and being really aggressive about that. and having some great outcomes and actions. so i'm really encouraged right now, joy. >> in the past you had tremendous turnout when it came to the presidential election when president obama was re-elected in 2012, versus just 6% turnout in the 2013 election. when you look at ferguson as a city, you're talking about a 67% african-american city where of the six members of the city

council, only one is african-american. you're talking about a city where one of the members of the city council is one of the former officers who is accused of beating a man and is now on the city council. what is it about the strange dichotomy where you have a state that is run by a democratic governor where you still have these issues of disconnect with the largely democratic african-american community. >> there are a lot of things at play in ferguson, especially when you talk about voter turnout. 67% african-american population in ferguson doesn't speak to what is inside that population. the population compared to the white population is disproportionately young and under 18. you have a number of people who don't have access to the ballot box and people living in poverty with other barriers that stand between them and getting to the voting booth. it's a matter of registering those of age and who qualify and having them get vote ready and

able to turn out. we're talking about having the appropriate identification. there are certain voter suppression issues in holding the off-year elections. the current mayor of ferguson was a former president of the st. louis young republicans. if that has shown up anywhere on the ballot, i don't know that he'd be married today. there are a number of shennanigans going on that keep a certain part of the community in power and another part of the community locked out and disenfranchised. those democrats who win statewide can't win without a good turnout from the city of st. louis where i grew up and was raised. they cannot win without winning st. louis county and on over into kansas city. and so it is a very, very precarious decision that they find themselves in now with having to answer largely african-american communities are saying they want versus what

their white, more fluent constituents want in st. louis county. governor nixon certainly has failed in any number of ways and it's one of the major reasons he has not taken prosecutor mcculloch off this case. it's the reason, i believe, why there's been no special prosecutor appointed by this governor even though they have the power to do so. >> you are talking essentially even though some of these are democrats and easy elected official and a democrat. how do the people of these communities like ferguson even though they are dealing with the electioned official. >> i'm sorry. state senator goldie? >> sure. >> thank you, joy. i apologize. what i would tell you is that people are now awake. they understand that they have rights and responsibilities and

when some people were passive, they are no longer passive. let me tell you, when all of the cameras are gone, we're still going to be protesting every single day. there are people that are upset and have hurt feelings inside of them and the elections that we've had, i guarantee it will not happen again. >> goldie? >> i have to agree with her. absolutely. i think that there is a brand new ferver on the ground in st. louis like i've never seen before and we have a history of having the social authorities and we were -- things are about to change, i believe. people have decided that they can make a change. the recall election is going on and i think there's also going to be people taking a look at the contract of the city of

ferguson city manager and of its police chief. they are both elected and unelected officials to hold account here and i hope that time has come. >> lastly to you, state senator, i want to ask about the confrontation that she had, getting into a government building, a public building and barred by police tape and officers from getting in. what do you make of that? >> i do have to tell you that st. louis county, i've learned a lot in the last several days, especially about their enforcement and their excessive force. and any time there is a building that is open to the public, the public should be able to enter into and engage in those buildings. there's been criticism far before the mike brown situation and there's been people who have complained about access to our government buildings. and they have done it for so

long which is preventing people from the public coming in. and one of the biggest issues this entire time, since we've been protesting, is our first amendment right, which st. louis county police officers have taken away from my constituents who have literally cried because they felt as though they couldn't express themselves. we're going to continue this conversation to make sure there's plenty of openness and transparency. >> we really appreciate both of your voices in this conversation. state senator maria and goldie taylor, thanks to both of you. >> thanks, joy. up next, the american doctor who contracted ebola has left the hospital but the crisis in africa is only getting worse. ao hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates.

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thousands of prayers. i am incredibly thankful to all of those who were involved in my care from the first day of my illness all the way up to today, the day of my release from emory. >> that was dr. kent brantly. he was just discharged from the hospital after being infected with the ebola virus. meanwhile, health officials in west africa are scrambling to get the ebola epidemic under control there. so far, more than 1300 people have died prompting the world health organization to prompt a global health emergency. at leefl 84 people died last week alone. 15 cases have been reported in nigeria. that nation's government has set up isolation centers and checkpoints at border crossings to locate anybody bho cawho cam contact with an infected person.

adam is "the new york times" west central africa bureau chief from sierra leone. can you explain why this ep d epidemic, this long after it started, is going to be spiralling out of control? >> what you're seeing is confrontation from one of the world's deadliest viruses in some of the world's weakest states. these are countries with no functioning health care systems and very weak governments. so, in a sense, it's not surprising that, you know, this epidemic continues not only to kill people but to grow as well. there are new cases every day and new deaths. >> and you know, one of the things that we heard is just some basic fundamentals that don't seem to be in place.

stories of the ebola virus spreading because of lack of things like gloves. is that still the case in places like sierra leone and nigeria? >> it's not the case in nigeria which is considered a rich country although it's deeply corrupt and many of the resources are misdirected. but it's true that in liberia and in sierra leone, some of these very basic supplies that you mentioned, like gloves, protective equipment have been lacking and so yes, health care workers have been exposed to the virus and they spread it in the general population and it's continued unchecked. >> i think we should point out that ebola is not something that is spread through casual contact. it's spread through contact with bodily fluids, like blood, et cetera.

it's not airborne. so that kind of a spread does indicate that the basic health practices need to follow and not trustee of the government's edics on what to do? >> well, in the againing of the epidemic, that was certainly true. people in this part of the world just didn't believe that directives of the government, which in turn it sought to minimize, at least at the beginning, what was coming. and now i think that's less true. people -- there is a gradually rising consciousness in sierra leone and liberia, that this is something that people have to take enormous care with. but that said, it's still true that in all of these countries,

in rural populations there is a deep mistrust of the government and there is still plenty of cases of patients being hidden by their families, of unprotected deaths, unprotected burials being carried out and that's very dangerous because the bodies of ebola victims are very infectious. it's still a problem. >> thank you for your time. stay safe, adam. thank you very much. >> no problem. and ahead on "reid between the lines," possible new ways to police the police.

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as long as this community is still standing, we'll be okay. >> we just want justice. people want to be heard. what's your hope for tonight? >> i hope for peace every night.

i'm a cop. if you don't want to get hurt, don't challenge me. that's the provocative title of a column in "the washington post" that has set off a fury of debate. this was written by sinil responding to the shooting of michael brown and the over-the-top police tactics. he writes, "here's the bottom line. if you don't want to get tased, pepper-sprayed, struck to the ground, do what i tell you. don't tell me i can't stop you. don't say i'm a racist pig. don't threaten to sue me and take away my badge. don't even think of aggressively walking towards me. how difficult is it to cooperate for that long?" the irony is that i pay your salary approach is associated with white interactions with police. but the authoritarian view did

catch the attention of "the nine principles of good policing" and formed the basis of policing here, which include, to prevent crime and disorder as an alternative to oppression by military force and severity of pun mi punishment, that the power of the police is dependent upon public approval of their existence, actions, and behavior and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect and to use physical force only when the exercise of persuasion, advice, and warnings is found to be insufficient to obtain public cooperation to an extent necessary to secure observance of law or to preserve order and use a minimum degree of physical force which is necessary on any particular occasion for achieving a police objective. and since any institution is full of human beings, securing

those principles can't just be left up to the police themselves. one obvious solution, a national standard of body cameras to record every police interaction with the public. something proven to dramatically reduce allegations of excessive force or just better leadership that makes it clear to officers that their job is to protect and serve the public, not rule over us or racially profile or arrest journalists or self-impose martial law. to be sure, it's a very bad idea. in fact, downright dangerous to get confrontational with a police officer. especially if you're a person of color. but it's not up to the public to make police obey the constitution or the law. and that wraps things up for "the reid report." i'll see you back here tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. eastern. visit us as msnbc.com. "the cycle" is up next. >> joy, another very busy news day, as you know. at the top of the somehow, we have a former double agent who was recruited by extremists.

he's going to tell us his story and give us a sense of what isis is doing to recruit westerners from all around the world, something that really frightens me. we'll get the latest in ferguson. it seems that it's beginning to be more peaceful but the under lying issues, as we know, are still there. we have steve kornacki joining us. >> that just adds to it. >> obviously the most important thing today. that's journalism for you. >> i'm just telling you, it's all about us. >> "the cycle" is up next. did you know, your eyes can lose vital nutrients as you age?

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straight ahead on "the cycle," the execution is raising awareness of the global reach. we will speak to a man who was recruited by an extremist. and keeping relative calm on the streets of ferguson last night but a long road ahead. i'm toure.

we'll check in with craig melvin who is on the ground. the attorney general is a busy man as comments about ferguson are coming as he announced a record-breaking fine against one of the biggest banks. i'm steve kornacki in for ari melber. >> and finally free. two ebola patients are cleared for release and are walking among us. there were hugs all around. for those two healthy americans, it's a miracle. that and more as "the cycle" rolls on for august 21st, 2014. and right now, the lives of at least three americans and dozens of foreign nationals are in the hands of isis. the terrorists are demanding cash and an end to u.s. air strikes in northern iraq. but in an effort to show that